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Paul Kingsnorth's avatar

I appreciate the review and the work put in, Rupert. I'm sorry we didn't get to discuss this in person.

There are a few things I could quibble about here but I won't. I don't think all of your interpretations of the book are quite right, but people would need to read it to decide for themselves.

There are a couple of clear errors though, which are worth correcting:

'Philip Pullman’s His Dark Materials amounts to a near-satanic call for self-worship.'

This isn't what I said. I wrote that Pullman's series is a work which deliberately sets Lucifer up as the hero and God as the villain. This is the case, and Pullman has acknoweleged it himself. In that sense, the book is openly Satanic, in the literal sense. Pullman, of course, is an atheist so he doesn't believe in Satan.

'[Paul] refers to queerness as “the greatest sin in the Christian world”.'

No I don't, and this is a bad misreading. I refer to *pride* as the greatest sin - which it is. The foremost of the seven deadly sins, in fact, and for good reason. Pride leads to the kind of self-worship I critique throughout the book.

As I say, we will disagree on other things - science and AI, for example - but then half the point of the book is to provoke this kind of discussion. So thanks again for it.

Andrea Hiott's avatar

Even as we understand we must move beyond binaries, it is so hard to see how they structure those very attempts. We still end up with life vs machine, or life vs non life. How to break this or to begin to understand that these are not two ends of any spectrum? That there is no line, that whatever is, it is more kaleidoscopic and constellatory than we even have symbols for yet?

This is a truly dissonant and earth changing chance!

In my discussion with you (and also in the one with McGilchrist), we practiced how to hold this space so as to extend beyond polarities and better receive this full constellation, and this essay (like so much of your philosophical work, as we discussed) is another practice of love in that sense. Still, it is gripped, held in the jaws of, constrained with, that same clench of either/or.

So plase hear (read) this as a call from an emotional heart struggling to articulate what I can feel here but is never quite expressed. For example, when you write:

"Kingsnorth oddly shares something significant in common here with Vanessa Andreotti. She, too, has recently suggested that something is truly being born, in AI. Only she thinks that what is being born could potentially be as wonderful as Kingsnorth thinks it is satanic. My view is that both are profoundly mistaken. Nothing is being born!"

This is such an important point and I've seen so few notice or make it, and yet, of course something is being born and it is what was never born and will never die and yet is shaped by both these 'sides' which are actually two points in a larger constellation that we need somehow to be able to discuss and hold together. Think how very many ideas (dare i even say opinions or even beliefs) Kingsnorth 'on his side' and Andreotti 'on her side' have sparked for good caring people and how many of those will assume whichever of those views is 'right' and thus will feel compelled to share and support and endorse and find further associations through that lens. Isn't this birth of the sort that is actually transformation of the world? Isn't it why both are so exciting? And so meaningful? How to acknowledge your point and also to hold that there is continual birthing?

Another example is when you write:

"in saying “everything is alive”, we flatten the radical difference between life and non-life. If rocks and rivers are said to be as alive as foxes and fungi, do we not risk losing what is most fragile, most sacred, most killable in the living world? However alive rocks may be, they can’t be killed."

Again, such an important and not often made point, and also touching on arguments that come up constantly in my fields of philosophy and neuroscience. But do you see how the either/or of life and non-life stealthily structure and orient the entire point and all that can be grasped from it? How do we understand the sacredness of what is as existing differently from different positions such that we must express and assess anew each encounter? Rather than coming to life as if we decide if it is life or non-life and then follow the playbook from there? Saying everything is alive excites people because it allows them to feel the magical quality always there in existence and in our ability to be aware of existence and this feeling does dull once one takes a side (i.e. panpsychism or animism) and then has to fit everything and orient everything into it. What if we understood that those isms are tools we use anew in each assessment (alongside materialism, idealism and all the rest) so as to remember the magical quality that is that we are here at all? Then the rock is also a way into that love? And that it need not be killable to open that portal.

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